There was an article in the Citizen this morning (sorry, not in their online edition, but it’s a syndication of this London Times article) about the movement in France to stop differentiating between madame and mademoiselle, the French versions of Mrs. and Miss. Feminists are calling the distinction between the two a ‘flagarant example of sex discrimination’ because it forces women to reveal their marital status, whereas men have the simple honourific of monsieur regardless of their marital status. They are not advocating an equivalent to the English Ms., but a straight choice between madame and monsieur.
I think this is a great idea. I think we should do it in English, too. Let’s get rid of Mrs., with its matronly baggage, and the coquettish Miss, and just go with a simple choice between Mr. and Ms. I skip this box wherever I can, and choose Ms. when forced to do so, not out of any disrespect to my marriage but because I think the distinction is anachronous in modern society.
French culture seems to be ahead of the curve on this one, and on the issue of marital name change, too. In the province of Quebec, a woman keeps her birth name upon marriage unless she files legal paperwork to change it. I’m quite frankly a little surprised to see how many women still change their names.
When I got married the first time (the infamous practice marriage), I actually cried the night of our wedding at the idea of being Mrs Whassisname. I had spent 20 years forming idea of myself based on being Miss Donders, and the formal reality of being Mrs Whassisname left me feeling cut off from my past and my identity. Three years later, before I realized divorce was on the horizon, I started talking about switching back to my birth name. He was not impressed. When we did get divorced, I remember clearly the day I received my new provincial health card in the mail – the first official document that restored my birth name – and I cried again.
Most of you know, too, that the boys have hyphenated surnames. I thought I was okay with them having Beloved’s surname officially, and my surname as a second middle name – until it was time to fill out the paperwork and leave the hospital when Tristan was about 40 hours old. I couldn’t do it. Sometimes, when I’m spelling it out for the third time over the phone to a pharmacist or receptionist or the like, I expect the boys might curse my willful modern attitudes some day… but I hope they’ll be the kind of guys who understand why this sort of thing does matter.
As a sidebar, even the language we use to discuss names is laden with meaning: women have a “maiden” name (an archaic term I’ve been studiously avoiding) which is the name you give up on marriage to take on your husband’s “surname”. Interesting, no?
What do you think? Are you proud to be Mrs. Hisfamilyname? Would you be offended if your wife kept (or reclaimed) her birth name? What possible use is served by the distinction between Mrs., Ms., and Miss?
I’ve wondered about how hyphenating works a few generations down the line. If each generation’s last names grow by succeeding powers of two, we’ll quickly have to resort to acronyms.
And what if 8-surnamed kid marries one-surnamed kid? An 8-to-1 ratio hardly seems fair.
These are the things I think about when I should be thinking about other things…
I’ve wondered about how hyphenating works a few generations down the line. If each generation’s last names grow by succeeding powers of two, we’ll quickly have to resort to acronyms.
And what if 8-surnamed kid marries one-surnamed kid? An 8-to-1 ratio hardly seems fair.
These are the things I think about when I should be thinking about other things…
I’ve spent more than a few brain cells chewing over that one too, Dean Dad. My best guess is in that circumstance, the boys choose part of their name and part of the girl’s name. Doing that without at least the appearance of snubbing one side of the family or the other would be a trick, though, wouldn’t it?
An acronym could work in some circumstances. Maybe they could make an anagram? Draw names from a hat? A dart into a long list taped on the wall? Choose an arbitrary name based on favourite authors or film stars in common? In the world of Apple and Moses, it seems a lot of the old rules don’t come into play any more…
I’ve spent more than a few brain cells chewing over that one too, Dean Dad. My best guess is in that circumstance, the boys choose part of their name and part of the girl’s name. Doing that without at least the appearance of snubbing one side of the family or the other would be a trick, though, wouldn’t it?
An acronym could work in some circumstances. Maybe they could make an anagram? Draw names from a hat? A dart into a long list taped on the wall? Choose an arbitrary name based on favourite authors or film stars in common? In the world of Apple and Moses, it seems a lot of the old rules don’t come into play any more…
I agree with you that we should use one honourific when refering to a woman instead of the traditional Miss/Mrs/Ms. Why should a woman have to reveal her marital status anyway? It just lends to the whole “spinster” connotation that we all love so much.
On changing her last name upon marriage, I’m for whatever a woman wants to do (that was the goal of feminism, after all wasn’t it? Choice?). I struggled with this alot when I got married, not wanting to be referred to as “Mrs. Husband’sFirstName Husband’sLastName”. And, I don’t really like being referred to as Mrs. at all, but I’m not entirely sure why (maybe it just makes me feel old!!). I don’t completely avoid it, but I don’t feel any “pride” about it either.
When deciding to change my name, it really just came down to wanting my new family to have just one name, to all feel part of the same group, so to speak. And when I really thought about it, my former surname (which I still consider to be one of my names) was only mine because of my father anyway. We thought seriously about hyphenating our boys’ last names, but wondered what would happen if their future wives want to hyphenate their and their childrens’ already hyphenated names too? How many names will these kids end up with anyway? Where did it stop?
At the end of the day, I think we have some of these traditions because they work, they simplify things and that sometimes we are guilty of reading too much into these kinds of choices. If we continue to change everything “traditional” (even when it has practical application) about our culture, what attachment will we have to it, in the end? I’m really not sure there’s a right answer to this one, but I’m so glad to have had the choice.
I agree with you that we should use one honourific when refering to a woman instead of the traditional Miss/Mrs/Ms. Why should a woman have to reveal her marital status anyway? It just lends to the whole “spinster” connotation that we all love so much.
On changing her last name upon marriage, I’m for whatever a woman wants to do (that was the goal of feminism, after all wasn’t it? Choice?). I struggled with this alot when I got married, not wanting to be referred to as “Mrs. Husband’sFirstName Husband’sLastName”. And, I don’t really like being referred to as Mrs. at all, but I’m not entirely sure why (maybe it just makes me feel old!!). I don’t completely avoid it, but I don’t feel any “pride” about it either.
When deciding to change my name, it really just came down to wanting my new family to have just one name, to all feel part of the same group, so to speak. And when I really thought about it, my former surname (which I still consider to be one of my names) was only mine because of my father anyway. We thought seriously about hyphenating our boys’ last names, but wondered what would happen if their future wives want to hyphenate their and their childrens’ already hyphenated names too? How many names will these kids end up with anyway? Where did it stop?
At the end of the day, I think we have some of these traditions because they work, they simplify things and that sometimes we are guilty of reading too much into these kinds of choices. If we continue to change everything “traditional” (even when it has practical application) about our culture, what attachment will we have to it, in the end? I’m really not sure there’s a right answer to this one, but I’m so glad to have had the choice.
Well being married in La Belle Provience way back when they first started this, (1982) I had told my Hubby that even if I was forced to take his name I would have changed it back to my family name. There was no way I could be known as his family name because deep in my heart I was not. I was not born that way and I would not die that way. My jack being who he is totally understood. (alhough I think it should be a choice not a fait accompli) Although I did not hypennate the kids names. They are totally their fathers last name. Because they are. Just like I was my fathers daughter. Now My sister has hyphenated her kids names in honour of our family becasue my brothers both had girls and there is no one to carry on the family name. SO there is abit there.
As for getting rid of Miss and Mrs and going to Ms. I totally agree. They got rid of Master for young men long ago and now just have Mr. I used to use this long ago address when I worked in an elementray school library. Master Soandso. Confused the boys to no end. They didn’t even know that this exsisted. LOL
Well being married in La Belle Provience way back when they first started this, (1982) I had told my Hubby that even if I was forced to take his name I would have changed it back to my family name. There was no way I could be known as his family name because deep in my heart I was not. I was not born that way and I would not die that way. My jack being who he is totally understood. (alhough I think it should be a choice not a fait accompli) Although I did not hypennate the kids names. They are totally their fathers last name. Because they are. Just like I was my fathers daughter. Now My sister has hyphenated her kids names in honour of our family becasue my brothers both had girls and there is no one to carry on the family name. SO there is abit there.
As for getting rid of Miss and Mrs and going to Ms. I totally agree. They got rid of Master for young men long ago and now just have Mr. I used to use this long ago address when I worked in an elementray school library. Master Soandso. Confused the boys to no end. They didn’t even know that this exsisted. LOL
While some traditionalists rail against “Ms.,” calling it some kind of 70s bra-burning abomination, it’s much older than that.
I’m always interested in old cookbooks and etiquette manuals, and I picked up an etiquette guide from the 1920s at a library booksale. There I found a detailed description of the title “Ms.,” which called it the best way to address correspondence to any businesswoman of whose marital status you were unsure.
While some traditionalists rail against “Ms.,” calling it some kind of 70s bra-burning abomination, it’s much older than that.
I’m always interested in old cookbooks and etiquette manuals, and I picked up an etiquette guide from the 1920s at a library booksale. There I found a detailed description of the title “Ms.,” which called it the best way to address correspondence to any businesswoman of whose marital status you were unsure.
I use Ms for any kind of official correspondence where I am forced to choose between the three options.
Privately, I call myself MrsP. (Remember in The Madness Of Kind George when the Queen Charlotte says, “Goodnight, Mr. King” and George replies, “Good night, Mrs. Queen.” – I thought it was one of the sweetest and tenderest moments that defined their obvious love of one another) It’s a way of saying to my husband that I am honoured to have his name.
I publish under my “birth name”.
When we got married last year, there were three options available: keep your birth name, change to your husband’s birth name or assume your husband’s birth name while keeping all your legal documents in your birth name. I chose the latter. Partly out of worry that the expense and bother of changing all my various id cards would be a PITA. However, I’m actually considering changing to my husbands birth name. I can never remember who I am!
I really liked the idea of changing my name. Part of me is a total sucker to the cultural marriage thing: getting the “brass ring” of a marriage – a kind of triumph. I admit that, though I don’t intellectually believe in it. I still feel it. The other part of me likes the idea that as a pair, my husband and I have become a new entity, and my taking a new name seems to reflect that. And, part of me just thought it would be a fun change.
I am definitely all for dropping the various titles though.
I use Ms for any kind of official correspondence where I am forced to choose between the three options.
Privately, I call myself MrsP. (Remember in The Madness Of Kind George when the Queen Charlotte says, “Goodnight, Mr. King” and George replies, “Good night, Mrs. Queen.” – I thought it was one of the sweetest and tenderest moments that defined their obvious love of one another) It’s a way of saying to my husband that I am honoured to have his name.
I publish under my “birth name”.
When we got married last year, there were three options available: keep your birth name, change to your husband’s birth name or assume your husband’s birth name while keeping all your legal documents in your birth name. I chose the latter. Partly out of worry that the expense and bother of changing all my various id cards would be a PITA. However, I’m actually considering changing to my husbands birth name. I can never remember who I am!
I really liked the idea of changing my name. Part of me is a total sucker to the cultural marriage thing: getting the “brass ring” of a marriage – a kind of triumph. I admit that, though I don’t intellectually believe in it. I still feel it. The other part of me likes the idea that as a pair, my husband and I have become a new entity, and my taking a new name seems to reflect that. And, part of me just thought it would be a fun change.
I am definitely all for dropping the various titles though.
Yap. This one is a doozy for me. I was going to talk about my personal choice and how I am slowly going back to Bouchard but today it is about the woman who first taught me about myself.
Before getting married I thought how silly it was to NOT take his name. I mean how else are people going to know that you are a family? It’s funny how a thought that comes into your head at the age of 7 can stay with you well into your 20s.
I grew up in Quebec and was always saying “Yes, even though I have a very French last name, I am not bilingual”. I am now, but I digress. I remember when newly married women stopped changing their names. I clearly remember my mom asking “I wonder I will be able to go back to using my birth name?” When the answer was most definitely yes, there were tears of joy. I thought it was odd but then my parents had an odd marriage. She, in her gentle way, begged me to consider keeping my birth name when I married. I ignored her. I mean how else would people know that we were a family?
When my mom moved here to Ontario, she was so mad when they forced her to include her married name because it was still on her Quebec driver’s license. So she complained to every one and they just said use a hyphenated version. So she did. She was known as Gethings-Bouchard. Doesn’t really flow well does it? When she got sick and was in the hospital she was know as “Gethings-Boucha” because the braniacs who developed the admission software for the hospital had limited the family name characters to 15. Now, not only was she carrying the name she didn’t want to carry but it was butchered. She hated it.
When I became pregnant she cried when I told her that the baby’s middle name was going to be Gethings. When she died, my brother argued that we should put Bouchard on her grave stone because that’s how people knew her for most of her life. And anyone searching for her won’t find her under Gethings. Besides, we were a family, no?
She’s been gone over a year now and just today they are engraving her stone with Gethings. I inherited her stubbornness. Families.
Yap. This one is a doozy for me. I was going to talk about my personal choice and how I am slowly going back to Bouchard but today it is about the woman who first taught me about myself.
Before getting married I thought how silly it was to NOT take his name. I mean how else are people going to know that you are a family? It’s funny how a thought that comes into your head at the age of 7 can stay with you well into your 20s.
I grew up in Quebec and was always saying “Yes, even though I have a very French last name, I am not bilingual”. I am now, but I digress. I remember when newly married women stopped changing their names. I clearly remember my mom asking “I wonder I will be able to go back to using my birth name?” When the answer was most definitely yes, there were tears of joy. I thought it was odd but then my parents had an odd marriage. She, in her gentle way, begged me to consider keeping my birth name when I married. I ignored her. I mean how else would people know that we were a family?
When my mom moved here to Ontario, she was so mad when they forced her to include her married name because it was still on her Quebec driver’s license. So she complained to every one and they just said use a hyphenated version. So she did. She was known as Gethings-Bouchard. Doesn’t really flow well does it? When she got sick and was in the hospital she was know as “Gethings-Boucha” because the braniacs who developed the admission software for the hospital had limited the family name characters to 15. Now, not only was she carrying the name she didn’t want to carry but it was butchered. She hated it.
When I became pregnant she cried when I told her that the baby’s middle name was going to be Gethings. When she died, my brother argued that we should put Bouchard on her grave stone because that’s how people knew her for most of her life. And anyone searching for her won’t find her under Gethings. Besides, we were a family, no?
She’s been gone over a year now and just today they are engraving her stone with Gethings. I inherited her stubbornness. Families.
My husband refused to offer an opinion on the subject of name changing until I told him that I didn’t have any interest in changing my name. Then he exhaled a big sigh of relief, and confessed that it had hit him hard when his younger sisters (with whom he is very close) changed their names, and he couldn’t stand the practice.
We didn’t hyphenate, though. We did the mother’s name as second middle name thing. Nothing wrong with hyphenation, but let’s just say that our real names would prove to be a bit more of a tongue twister than Scribbler-Blue.
My husband refused to offer an opinion on the subject of name changing until I told him that I didn’t have any interest in changing my name. Then he exhaled a big sigh of relief, and confessed that it had hit him hard when his younger sisters (with whom he is very close) changed their names, and he couldn’t stand the practice.
We didn’t hyphenate, though. We did the mother’s name as second middle name thing. Nothing wrong with hyphenation, but let’s just say that our real names would prove to be a bit more of a tongue twister than Scribbler-Blue.
I never get tired of talking about this one!
I too changed my name at my first marriage–then changed it back when we divorced and vowed never to change it again. It totally changed my personality to change my name. Perhaps not a typical response, but not something I’m eager to repeat.
It took years to train Erik’s family not to call me Mrs. Buhler, but they finally learned; and not having changed it sure is a handy way to screen out the telemarketers. “Can I speak to Mrs. Buhler please?” “Why, no!” *click*
When it came to naming children, Erik and I discussed options through most of the pregnancy and finally decided on chance: If the baby was a girl, it would receive my last name. It if it was a boy, it would receive his. The other person’s last name in either case would be used as a second middle name. So both names are represented, all heritages preserved, but neither is considered automatically more worthy and there’s no hyphenation (in our case it would have been truly unweildy).
I love Frances having my last name. It would have been fine the other way too, of course; but it’s great having that extra little connection with my first-born daughter. And it’s nice, too, to so often have the opportunity to explain what we’ve done. People are often surprised to find out that I kept my name and that Frances has it too, so it comes up a lot. Frankly I think we did a great job with our approach and I’d be thrilled to see more people doing it, because it’s fair.
The next child, if there is one, will have Erik’s last name, and my last name will be the second middle name, regardless of the baby’s sex.
I don’t believe that names make families. Love makes families. With the number of reconstituted families these days, steparents and stepsiblings and so on, all in one family and with different names, I think the ideal of a single name denoting a single family is already dead and gone, whether or not we’ve admitted it yet.
I never get tired of talking about this one!
I too changed my name at my first marriage–then changed it back when we divorced and vowed never to change it again. It totally changed my personality to change my name. Perhaps not a typical response, but not something I’m eager to repeat.
It took years to train Erik’s family not to call me Mrs. Buhler, but they finally learned; and not having changed it sure is a handy way to screen out the telemarketers. “Can I speak to Mrs. Buhler please?” “Why, no!” *click*
When it came to naming children, Erik and I discussed options through most of the pregnancy and finally decided on chance: If the baby was a girl, it would receive my last name. It if it was a boy, it would receive his. The other person’s last name in either case would be used as a second middle name. So both names are represented, all heritages preserved, but neither is considered automatically more worthy and there’s no hyphenation (in our case it would have been truly unweildy).
I love Frances having my last name. It would have been fine the other way too, of course; but it’s great having that extra little connection with my first-born daughter. And it’s nice, too, to so often have the opportunity to explain what we’ve done. People are often surprised to find out that I kept my name and that Frances has it too, so it comes up a lot. Frankly I think we did a great job with our approach and I’d be thrilled to see more people doing it, because it’s fair.
The next child, if there is one, will have Erik’s last name, and my last name will be the second middle name, regardless of the baby’s sex.
I don’t believe that names make families. Love makes families. With the number of reconstituted families these days, steparents and stepsiblings and so on, all in one family and with different names, I think the ideal of a single name denoting a single family is already dead and gone, whether or not we’ve admitted it yet.
I kind of like the idea of being called Master ____ although it would always beg the question, “Master of What”? Since I don’t really have an answer for that, I’ll have to stick with Mister.
A couple of my friends married a few years back and they did something that I though was quite interesting. They combined letters from both their surnames to create an entirely new family name. The name is fairly short at 10 letters because they didn’t use all the letters from both names so it’s still manageable. I think it can be seen as a compromise but more importantly as something that is entirely their own. I prefer this idea over one person changing their name. I don’t think one person should be forced to change their name simply because of a marriage.
I kind of like the idea of being called Master ____ although it would always beg the question, “Master of What”? Since I don’t really have an answer for that, I’ll have to stick with Mister.
A couple of my friends married a few years back and they did something that I though was quite interesting. They combined letters from both their surnames to create an entirely new family name. The name is fairly short at 10 letters because they didn’t use all the letters from both names so it’s still manageable. I think it can be seen as a compromise but more importantly as something that is entirely their own. I prefer this idea over one person changing their name. I don’t think one person should be forced to change their name simply because of a marriage.
I changed my name and have regretted it almost from day one. I thought about changing it back but then realized I would have to explain over and over again “No, we didn’t get divorced…”
The reason I changed my name (I wasn’t going to) – a girlfriend told me that I should do it because otherwise it would be confusing when I had kids. Dumb dumb dumb.
I’ve always chosen the “Ms.” and always will. I am no “Mrs. Smith.”
I’ve found it interesting that my children’s teachers have always been “Madame” even if they were single. Now I know why!
I changed my name and have regretted it almost from day one. I thought about changing it back but then realized I would have to explain over and over again “No, we didn’t get divorced…”
The reason I changed my name (I wasn’t going to) – a girlfriend told me that I should do it because otherwise it would be confusing when I had kids. Dumb dumb dumb.
I’ve always chosen the “Ms.” and always will. I am no “Mrs. Smith.”
I’ve found it interesting that my children’s teachers have always been “Madame” even if they were single. Now I know why!
I still feel sheepish for having changed my last name. The reason I did it was pure cowardice — I just couldn’t bear the reprobation from my husband’s family that would be sure to follow a decision to keep my name.
That said, however, I don’t feel that het up about it anymore. It’s not the end of the world, and at least my husband’s name is 10 times easier to deal with than my “old” name was!
And on the third hand, I also hate “Mrs” with a passion. So unnecessary, so sexist (yes, yes, so is the name change, I know). And when my mother-in-law sends me cards addressed to “Mrs. Husband’s First Name Husband’s Last Name” I want to claw my eyes out. Since I’m such a wimp I’ve never asked her to stop doing that.
Yes, I have issues.
I still feel sheepish for having changed my last name. The reason I did it was pure cowardice — I just couldn’t bear the reprobation from my husband’s family that would be sure to follow a decision to keep my name.
That said, however, I don’t feel that het up about it anymore. It’s not the end of the world, and at least my husband’s name is 10 times easier to deal with than my “old” name was!
And on the third hand, I also hate “Mrs” with a passion. So unnecessary, so sexist (yes, yes, so is the name change, I know). And when my mother-in-law sends me cards addressed to “Mrs. Husband’s First Name Husband’s Last Name” I want to claw my eyes out. Since I’m such a wimp I’ve never asked her to stop doing that.
Yes, I have issues.
I always thought I would jump at the chance to get rid of my last name. (It’s the kind of name that makes people laugh out loud.) But when I got married, I found I was more attached to it than I thought. And hey, if it gives people a laugh, well then I’m happy to have perked up your day. So I told my fiance I wanted to keep my last name thinking he wouldn’t care. Well, to my shock, he did, and we had a HUGE fight about it. But we still got married, and I still kept my name, because he came to his senses, apologized, and said that he didn’t care what my name was, he just wanted to be married to me. (I also think he thought I would give in and change it when our son was born, but no.) His family was a little shocked at first, but now I think my MIL respects me for it. And I remember asking my mom, when I was 8 or so, why she got mail addressed to Mrs. John Smith, instead of her own name.
I’m happy I kept my name. My son has my husband’s last name, and I’m ok with that too. I would have liked to give him my last name as his middle name, but oh the teasing he would get. Funny thing is though, almost every single one of my friends changed their names when they got married.
I always thought I would jump at the chance to get rid of my last name. (It’s the kind of name that makes people laugh out loud.) But when I got married, I found I was more attached to it than I thought. And hey, if it gives people a laugh, well then I’m happy to have perked up your day. So I told my fiance I wanted to keep my last name thinking he wouldn’t care. Well, to my shock, he did, and we had a HUGE fight about it. But we still got married, and I still kept my name, because he came to his senses, apologized, and said that he didn’t care what my name was, he just wanted to be married to me. (I also think he thought I would give in and change it when our son was born, but no.) His family was a little shocked at first, but now I think my MIL respects me for it. And I remember asking my mom, when I was 8 or so, why she got mail addressed to Mrs. John Smith, instead of her own name.
I’m happy I kept my name. My son has my husband’s last name, and I’m ok with that too. I would have liked to give him my last name as his middle name, but oh the teasing he would get. Funny thing is though, almost every single one of my friends changed their names when they got married.
I can’t help chiming in on this one, either. “Mrs. Husband’sFirstName Husband’sLastName” makes my skin crawl. Does anyone remember the Brooke Shields sitcom where she backs out of marrying a twerp at the last minute because he has the wedding favors printed with “The Kip Richards”. She says “I’ve been reduced to a ‘sss’.”
I kept my name, mostly because I’m a feminist and it is my name, darn it, though I like to joke that it is because he has one of those *really common* last names. Not Smith, the other one. And why would I want a boring name like that? Apologies to those of you with common names. Really.
We then proceeded to argue back and forth for years about what any children’s last name would be. In the end we went with his as the last name and mine as the second middle name (though I tend to neglect her 1st middle name as I make sure my name gets on every form). The argument that finally swayed me was that he had converted to my family’s religion and he was concerned that we create a strong connection to his family as well. Now, as others have said, families are connected by love and shared experience, not by names, but we needed to settle the darn argument and neither of us wanted to hyphenate.
I love the Beanie Baby approach, too though. Leave it up to the chromosomes!
I have not bothered to train most of my husband’s family not to call me Mrs. X, but we don’t see them much and my MIL (who lives in Quebec) is hip to it. In fact I think she hyphenates my daughter’s name on mail to be sure of not insulting me.
I can’t help chiming in on this one, either. “Mrs. Husband’sFirstName Husband’sLastName” makes my skin crawl. Does anyone remember the Brooke Shields sitcom where she backs out of marrying a twerp at the last minute because he has the wedding favors printed with “The Kip Richards”. She says “I’ve been reduced to a ‘sss’.”
I kept my name, mostly because I’m a feminist and it is my name, darn it, though I like to joke that it is because he has one of those *really common* last names. Not Smith, the other one. And why would I want a boring name like that? Apologies to those of you with common names. Really.
We then proceeded to argue back and forth for years about what any children’s last name would be. In the end we went with his as the last name and mine as the second middle name (though I tend to neglect her 1st middle name as I make sure my name gets on every form). The argument that finally swayed me was that he had converted to my family’s religion and he was concerned that we create a strong connection to his family as well. Now, as others have said, families are connected by love and shared experience, not by names, but we needed to settle the darn argument and neither of us wanted to hyphenate.
I love the Beanie Baby approach, too though. Leave it up to the chromosomes!
I have not bothered to train most of my husband’s family not to call me Mrs. X, but we don’t see them much and my MIL (who lives in Quebec) is hip to it. In fact I think she hyphenates my daughter’s name on mail to be sure of not insulting me.
Oh, and yeah, Ms. all the way.
Oh, and yeah, Ms. all the way.
I personally love being Mrs. Soandso. Although I did try to convince my Hubby to take my last name prior to our wedding as his is so simple, yet so difficult to pronounce and spell. He would have nothing of it.
I on the other hand was not only proud to take on his last name, but honoured as well. It was like a new beginning, a reincarnation of myself again. As I always say, you can change my name, but you can never take the **Insert Maiden Name** out of me.
I see nothing wrong with differenciating between Miss and Mrs. and I also see nothing wrong with being called Ms. I thinkg the guys lucked out on this one for sure, they always stay the same. Mr.** forever. They get no opportunity to change anything unless they pay a hefty fee.
Oh, yes, and all my cousins that live in Québec changed their last names to their husbands. And one cousin who was given his mothers name, changed it to ours 🙂
I personally love being Mrs. Soandso. Although I did try to convince my Hubby to take my last name prior to our wedding as his is so simple, yet so difficult to pronounce and spell. He would have nothing of it.
I on the other hand was not only proud to take on his last name, but honoured as well. It was like a new beginning, a reincarnation of myself again. As I always say, you can change my name, but you can never take the **Insert Maiden Name** out of me.
I see nothing wrong with differenciating between Miss and Mrs. and I also see nothing wrong with being called Ms. I thinkg the guys lucked out on this one for sure, they always stay the same. Mr.** forever. They get no opportunity to change anything unless they pay a hefty fee.
Oh, yes, and all my cousins that live in Québec changed their last names to their husbands. And one cousin who was given his mothers name, changed it to ours 🙂
When I got married, I dropped my maiden name like a hot potato … mostly because I always hated it, but also because I thought it would be unneccissarily complicated to have a single household with multiple last names.
I’m not a feminist by any stretch of the imagination, but I do think it would simplify things to get rid of the Mrs/Miss distinction because it’s annoying to have to guess someone’s marital status when addressing them formally.
When I got married, I dropped my maiden name like a hot potato … mostly because I always hated it, but also because I thought it would be unneccissarily complicated to have a single household with multiple last names.
I’m not a feminist by any stretch of the imagination, but I do think it would simplify things to get rid of the Mrs/Miss distinction because it’s annoying to have to guess someone’s marital status when addressing them formally.
I kept my name. No regrets there, but my daughters have their dad’s last name and my last name as a second middle name. That does bother me a bit. I feel like I gave in too easily. Honestly, I was worried about how my in-laws would feel if the girls didn’t carry on their name, and I just wanted to avoid a fight. Now I wish we would have hyphenated or made up an entirely new name for all of us. Or went the Beanie Baby approach and gave one girl my name and the other Joe’s.
I kept my name. No regrets there, but my daughters have their dad’s last name and my last name as a second middle name. That does bother me a bit. I feel like I gave in too easily. Honestly, I was worried about how my in-laws would feel if the girls didn’t carry on their name, and I just wanted to avoid a fight. Now I wish we would have hyphenated or made up an entirely new name for all of us. Or went the Beanie Baby approach and gave one girl my name and the other Joe’s.
I really don’t like using titles myself, but I respect the idea that others may prefer it. I don’t care for Miss, Ms. or Mrs. I’m just Sally. That’s me. It makes me cringe when someone calls me Mrs. Epp. However, I’m perfectly comfortable using Mrs. so-and-so if someone introduces herself to me that way.
My little boy is 2 and the parents of his toddler friends are starting to speak up about what they want their children to call adults. Some are nice enough to ask my opinion, so those kids call me Sally. Others insist that their children call me Mrs. Epp, and never ask me what I prefer. Since I don’t really like to be called Mrs. Epp, and I hate to be called Sal, I’m going to teach my son to call people whatever they prefer to be called. I think respecting people’s preferences is more important that following rules. It took me years to feel comfortable addressing adults by their first names because my parents always insisted that I use Mr. or Mrs. Hopefully my little boy will be comfortable using both first names and titles.
As for last names, I took my husband’s name. I wasn’t trying to be conservative or anything. I just like my husband a LOT more than my father. I think I’m so attached to my first name because it’s the only one that’s really mine. I associated my maiden name with my dad (he’s a nice man, but we didn’t really get along) and associate my married last name with my husband, but my first name is all mine.
I really don’t like using titles myself, but I respect the idea that others may prefer it. I don’t care for Miss, Ms. or Mrs. I’m just Sally. That’s me. It makes me cringe when someone calls me Mrs. Epp. However, I’m perfectly comfortable using Mrs. so-and-so if someone introduces herself to me that way.
My little boy is 2 and the parents of his toddler friends are starting to speak up about what they want their children to call adults. Some are nice enough to ask my opinion, so those kids call me Sally. Others insist that their children call me Mrs. Epp, and never ask me what I prefer. Since I don’t really like to be called Mrs. Epp, and I hate to be called Sal, I’m going to teach my son to call people whatever they prefer to be called. I think respecting people’s preferences is more important that following rules. It took me years to feel comfortable addressing adults by their first names because my parents always insisted that I use Mr. or Mrs. Hopefully my little boy will be comfortable using both first names and titles.
As for last names, I took my husband’s name. I wasn’t trying to be conservative or anything. I just like my husband a LOT more than my father. I think I’m so attached to my first name because it’s the only one that’s really mine. I associated my maiden name with my dad (he’s a nice man, but we didn’t really get along) and associate my married last name with my husband, but my first name is all mine.
I am proud to have my husband’s last name. I am proud to be Mrs. Whjatshisname. I earned it after years of dating and ten years of marriage. My accomplishments do not reflect Ms, Miss or Mrs., they reflect me and all of whom I aspire to be. I have been called worse! I only use my father’s middle name when posting or authoring incognito or to protect my husband and children from my opinions or security/safety risks. Seems to me if there is an identity crisis in someone giving me their name perhaps it is not earned or it will not be respected. To each their own….
I am proud to have my husband’s last name. I am proud to be Mrs. Whjatshisname. I earned it after years of dating and ten years of marriage. My accomplishments do not reflect Ms, Miss or Mrs., they reflect me and all of whom I aspire to be. I have been called worse! I only use my father’s middle name when posting or authoring incognito or to protect my husband and children from my opinions or security/safety risks. Seems to me if there is an identity crisis in someone giving me their name perhaps it is not earned or it will not be respected. To each their own….
Thanks to all for your wonderful comments.
Jodi in Ohio, I just want to address the last thing you said. To insinuate that because someone has misgivings about taking on a new name means somehow they haven’t “earned it or it will not be respected” seems a little harsh, especially considering the varied and interesting reasons people have given for keeping or changing their names. We’re quite careful to be respectful of others around here, even when we disagree. Sorry if I misread your comment.
Thanks to all for your wonderful comments.
Jodi in Ohio, I just want to address the last thing you said. To insinuate that because someone has misgivings about taking on a new name means somehow they haven’t “earned it or it will not be respected” seems a little harsh, especially considering the varied and interesting reasons people have given for keeping or changing their names. We’re quite careful to be respectful of others around here, even when we disagree. Sorry if I misread your comment.
My husband doesn’t care what I do. I didn’t change my name when we got married, but did once we had children. Why? I guess I tired at the thought of phoning the school explaining that I am Nancy X, Little Boy Y’s mother. I like how our family all has the same last name.
BUT…..
There is a sense of history to my ‘before marriage’ last name. Since my brother will not be procreating, our names ceases to exist after my generation. That makes me extremely sad. I wouldn’t have kept it for that reason. In fact, we never even discussed it but I bet my husband would’ve been all for the boys having my last name if I’d really wanted. Damn. Is it too late?
I do know for a fact that it would bother HIS parents immensely had we gone that route. In fact, it nearly drove him nuts (and my FIL and I did share more than one ‘discussion’ about it) that I didn’t change my name the instant I said “I will”. That should’ve been incentive enough – ha ha! Just to be a bitch.
I live in Quebec and have the best of both worlds since ‘legally’ I can’t use my married name on my health card or driver’s licence, so I can use my ‘before married name’ if I want.
So, perhaps I could’ve just used one line to say “I am a fence sitter”.
My husband doesn’t care what I do. I didn’t change my name when we got married, but did once we had children. Why? I guess I tired at the thought of phoning the school explaining that I am Nancy X, Little Boy Y’s mother. I like how our family all has the same last name.
BUT…..
There is a sense of history to my ‘before marriage’ last name. Since my brother will not be procreating, our names ceases to exist after my generation. That makes me extremely sad. I wouldn’t have kept it for that reason. In fact, we never even discussed it but I bet my husband would’ve been all for the boys having my last name if I’d really wanted. Damn. Is it too late?
I do know for a fact that it would bother HIS parents immensely had we gone that route. In fact, it nearly drove him nuts (and my FIL and I did share more than one ‘discussion’ about it) that I didn’t change my name the instant I said “I will”. That should’ve been incentive enough – ha ha! Just to be a bitch.
I live in Quebec and have the best of both worlds since ‘legally’ I can’t use my married name on my health card or driver’s licence, so I can use my ‘before married name’ if I want.
So, perhaps I could’ve just used one line to say “I am a fence sitter”.
Newish reader, first time commenter here. I really enjoy your blog for its humor and thought-provoking posts.
I didn’t change my name when I married; I didn’t even consider it, and my husband turned a bit pale when I suggested he take mine! Our kids’ have both names, hyphenated, partly because they way we saw it, we are a new family unto ourselves, not a simple extension of my husband’s. They are not just of my husband, or just of me, and I wanted their names to reflect that. When they are older, they may choose to drop one. My view is that your name should fit and resonate–and, as a previous commenter stated, the choice is what is important. For some people, a surname is not a huge deal. For me, it was. I kept the one that fit.
(I think it’s an interesting thought that a woman’s maiden name belongs to her father–but on that basis, doesn’t her married name belong to her father-in-law? I’m not trying to be in any way argumentative; I just think name ‘ownership’ is an interesting idea!)
Newish reader, first time commenter here. I really enjoy your blog for its humor and thought-provoking posts.
I didn’t change my name when I married; I didn’t even consider it, and my husband turned a bit pale when I suggested he take mine! Our kids’ have both names, hyphenated, partly because they way we saw it, we are a new family unto ourselves, not a simple extension of my husband’s. They are not just of my husband, or just of me, and I wanted their names to reflect that. When they are older, they may choose to drop one. My view is that your name should fit and resonate–and, as a previous commenter stated, the choice is what is important. For some people, a surname is not a huge deal. For me, it was. I kept the one that fit.
(I think it’s an interesting thought that a woman’s maiden name belongs to her father–but on that basis, doesn’t her married name belong to her father-in-law? I’m not trying to be in any way argumentative; I just think name ‘ownership’ is an interesting idea!)
Never going to be a Miss or a Mrs.
Getting married this summer so this is a bit of a timely debate. My name, combined with his last name (Ball) makes it sound like a backyard game (teatherball). I’m 100% feminist and proud to be one. He doesn’t want to change his name because he likes his being as short as it is, and is leaving it up to me to change (or not change) my name.
Might hyphenate (though that’s going to be a super long name), might just keep my name and have kids with hyphenated names. Might give girls chidren my name, boys his. Might keep my name professionally and use his socially.
Definitely going to have to figure this stuff out soon.
Never going to be a Miss or a Mrs.
Getting married this summer so this is a bit of a timely debate. My name, combined with his last name (Ball) makes it sound like a backyard game (teatherball). I’m 100% feminist and proud to be one. He doesn’t want to change his name because he likes his being as short as it is, and is leaving it up to me to change (or not change) my name.
Might hyphenate (though that’s going to be a super long name), might just keep my name and have kids with hyphenated names. Might give girls chidren my name, boys his. Might keep my name professionally and use his socially.
Definitely going to have to figure this stuff out soon.
Birth name-Married name? They still are signifying that I belong to a man. Either my father or my husband. Neither is really MY name. So I don’t put much stock in it.
To me, I think of it as a team name. We are Team H…. I use to play for team C….. but I got promoted to co-Coach. Now I have a new team. Plus I never cared much for playing for my old team anyway. What a bunch of sour, whiny, boring, so and sos. Much prefer the new team.
I have ALWAYS been taught to use Ms.
Anything else is considered disrespectful.
Birth name-Married name? They still are signifying that I belong to a man. Either my father or my husband. Neither is really MY name. So I don’t put much stock in it.
To me, I think of it as a team name. We are Team H…. I use to play for team C….. but I got promoted to co-Coach. Now I have a new team. Plus I never cared much for playing for my old team anyway. What a bunch of sour, whiny, boring, so and sos. Much prefer the new team.
I have ALWAYS been taught to use Ms.
Anything else is considered disrespectful.
Very interesting post and comments here.
All those years studying gave me the advantage of being able to use “Dr” so the whole Miss-Ms-Mrs thing got obliterated from my life. Before that I was simply a Mlle.
Never took my husband’s name, never even considered it. Yes, we got married in Quebec, but also having the Dr forced me in a way to keep my “maiden name” (hate that term) so as not to confuse matters.
Half of my family is in Spain and there hyphenated names are the norm. A child gets the names of both parents (dad first, mom second). When you get married, you keep your name. So when a
X-Y marries a Z-A, the kids then become X-Z.
Very interesting post and comments here.
All those years studying gave me the advantage of being able to use “Dr” so the whole Miss-Ms-Mrs thing got obliterated from my life. Before that I was simply a Mlle.
Never took my husband’s name, never even considered it. Yes, we got married in Quebec, but also having the Dr forced me in a way to keep my “maiden name” (hate that term) so as not to confuse matters.
Half of my family is in Spain and there hyphenated names are the norm. A child gets the names of both parents (dad first, mom second). When you get married, you keep your name. So when a
X-Y marries a Z-A, the kids then become X-Z.
Hey Twinmom, I like that formula. And I’m saying that entirely because my name comes first in the equation!!
Is this really a feminist issue? Or just an identity issue? I never thought about it in those terms when I was writing the original post. I’d just assumed that so many women of our generation were feminist that it goes without saying – so much so that I was surprised when SMIT said “I’m not a feminist by any stretch of the imagination.” You don’t have to be militant to believe that women are equal to men, and isn’t that what feminism means?
Such fascinating people you are, my bloggy friends! Really, thanks for the most excellent feedback on this topic.
Hey Twinmom, I like that formula. And I’m saying that entirely because my name comes first in the equation!!
Is this really a feminist issue? Or just an identity issue? I never thought about it in those terms when I was writing the original post. I’d just assumed that so many women of our generation were feminist that it goes without saying – so much so that I was surprised when SMIT said “I’m not a feminist by any stretch of the imagination.” You don’t have to be militant to believe that women are equal to men, and isn’t that what feminism means?
Such fascinating people you are, my bloggy friends! Really, thanks for the most excellent feedback on this topic.
I find that with pregnancy, breastfeeding and all the other family demands I have since getting hitched, remembering the name I was given at birth is difficult enough. Thank God I didn’t change it. People would think I has Alzhiemers.
I find that with pregnancy, breastfeeding and all the other family demands I have since getting hitched, remembering the name I was given at birth is difficult enough. Thank God I didn’t change it. People would think I has Alzhiemers.
I agree with the whole only using Ms. (why does anyone need to know my marital status?) but (and perhaps this is where the feminism issue comes to play) for some people the title does have connotations of the type of feminist the media likes to portray as “radical” a la Ms. Magazine. Or maybe this is just in my own conflicted imagination because I’m always confused as to which box to tick, even though I always pick Ms.
I too am sheepish about the fact that I took my husband’s surname as my own. I rationalized that his name was way easier to say & spell & I kept my last name as a second middle name. Of course now my driver’s license is all screwed up because they just couldn’t wrap their heads around it – three times! I also felt a lot of pressure from my in-laws to take his name which I’m a bit bitter about because two years later I overhear mom-in-law telling sister-in-law not to take her fiancé’s name when she gets married because she’ll lose her identity. Excuse me?! Grrrr. And so now I get mail from that side of the family addressed to Mrs.hisfirstname hislastname & it drives me bonkers.
I like what Beanie Baby said best of all: “I don’t believe that names make families. Love makes families.”
I agree with the whole only using Ms. (why does anyone need to know my marital status?) but (and perhaps this is where the feminism issue comes to play) for some people the title does have connotations of the type of feminist the media likes to portray as “radical” a la Ms. Magazine. Or maybe this is just in my own conflicted imagination because I’m always confused as to which box to tick, even though I always pick Ms.
I too am sheepish about the fact that I took my husband’s surname as my own. I rationalized that his name was way easier to say & spell & I kept my last name as a second middle name. Of course now my driver’s license is all screwed up because they just couldn’t wrap their heads around it – three times! I also felt a lot of pressure from my in-laws to take his name which I’m a bit bitter about because two years later I overhear mom-in-law telling sister-in-law not to take her fiancé’s name when she gets married because she’ll lose her identity. Excuse me?! Grrrr. And so now I get mail from that side of the family addressed to Mrs.hisfirstname hislastname & it drives me bonkers.
I like what Beanie Baby said best of all: “I don’t believe that names make families. Love makes families.”
I took my husband’s last name because I don’t like the last name I was given at birth. For one thing, when misspelled it means evil in a prominent European language and for another, no one who only reads it can pronounce it correctly and no one who only hears it can spell it correctly, and lastly, there are only about 50 people who share it and they are all related to me within three degrees of consanguinity.
I would not have taken the last name of a previous boyfriend…Tower. I’m 4’11”. About half the guys I dated, if we had married, I would have taken their last names because I liked the name better than staying MeansEvil.
I like being a Miller. I like the anonymity of it.
That’s all.
I took my husband’s last name because I don’t like the last name I was given at birth. For one thing, when misspelled it means evil in a prominent European language and for another, no one who only reads it can pronounce it correctly and no one who only hears it can spell it correctly, and lastly, there are only about 50 people who share it and they are all related to me within three degrees of consanguinity.
I would not have taken the last name of a previous boyfriend…Tower. I’m 4’11”. About half the guys I dated, if we had married, I would have taken their last names because I liked the name better than staying MeansEvil.
I like being a Miller. I like the anonymity of it.
That’s all.
I took my husband’s last name because I don’t like the last name I was given at birth. For one thing, when misspelled it means evil in a prominent European language and for another, no one who only reads it can pronounce it correctly and no one who only hears it can spell it correctly, and lastly, there are only about 50 people who share it and they are all related to me within three degrees of consanguinity.
I would not have taken the last name of a previous boyfriend…Tower. I’m 4’11”. About half the guys I dated, if we had married, I would have taken their last names because I liked the name better than staying MeansEvil.
I like being a Miller. I like the anonymity of it.
That’s all.
I took my husband’s last name because I don’t like the last name I was given at birth. For one thing, when misspelled it means evil in a prominent European language and for another, no one who only reads it can pronounce it correctly and no one who only hears it can spell it correctly, and lastly, there are only about 50 people who share it and they are all related to me within three degrees of consanguinity.
I would not have taken the last name of a previous boyfriend…Tower. I’m 4’11”. About half the guys I dated, if we had married, I would have taken their last names because I liked the name better than staying MeansEvil.
I like being a Miller. I like the anonymity of it.
That’s all.
Sorry that posted twice.
Sorry that posted twice.
Let me throw in a few cents from the Canadian-in-Germany perspective. There are two main terms for referring to women: Fraulein and Frau. I actually thought that Fraulein (Miss) was acceptable when talking to young women – apparently there is a less favourable connotation these days – so that has fallen out of favour. Instead all women are referred to as Frau – and this is directly translated (at our English speaking company) into Mrs. This is a bit wierd – particularly when sending an email to a German woman and then cc’ing North Americans – eg. Dear Mrs. Hoerscht. Another alternative which is wierd as well is to change the title of a woman. So my previous boss was called Der Chef (the chief). My new boss, who is female, is called by her first name – and the reason we call her by her first name is that the only polite way of calling her the equivalent of Der Chef would be Die Cheferin – which, for the anglophones is like called her “The Chief-ette”. So she is called by her first name, instead of The Chief – but this country is so 1950s when it comes to women’s liberation that nothing surprises me anymore. But – there is no Ms., there used to be a Miss but not anymore – and they are stuck with calling all women Mrs…which sounds pretty similar to our own predicament.
Let me throw in a few cents from the Canadian-in-Germany perspective. There are two main terms for referring to women: Fraulein and Frau. I actually thought that Fraulein (Miss) was acceptable when talking to young women – apparently there is a less favourable connotation these days – so that has fallen out of favour. Instead all women are referred to as Frau – and this is directly translated (at our English speaking company) into Mrs. This is a bit wierd – particularly when sending an email to a German woman and then cc’ing North Americans – eg. Dear Mrs. Hoerscht. Another alternative which is wierd as well is to change the title of a woman. So my previous boss was called Der Chef (the chief). My new boss, who is female, is called by her first name – and the reason we call her by her first name is that the only polite way of calling her the equivalent of Der Chef would be Die Cheferin – which, for the anglophones is like called her “The Chief-ette”. So she is called by her first name, instead of The Chief – but this country is so 1950s when it comes to women’s liberation that nothing surprises me anymore. But – there is no Ms., there used to be a Miss but not anymore – and they are stuck with calling all women Mrs…which sounds pretty similar to our own predicament.
wow! Look at all the comments this post inspired – definitely an issue that contines to be debated. I just wanted to throw my 2 cents in:
I kept my last name when I got married for similar reasons as those mentioned above – namely, I couldn’t see myself as being called anything else but with the name I had grown up. As well, my husband’s last name is Wood and I couldn’t help but always think “Kate Wood? Kate would what?” Drove me to distraction.
I have friends who legally changed their names to a hyphenated last name of both their last names when they got married. So, they are named Mr. Smith-Jones and Ms Smith-Jones. That seemed to be a good compromise to me.
wow! Look at all the comments this post inspired – definitely an issue that contines to be debated. I just wanted to throw my 2 cents in:
I kept my last name when I got married for similar reasons as those mentioned above – namely, I couldn’t see myself as being called anything else but with the name I had grown up. As well, my husband’s last name is Wood and I couldn’t help but always think “Kate Wood? Kate would what?” Drove me to distraction.
I have friends who legally changed their names to a hyphenated last name of both their last names when they got married. So, they are named Mr. Smith-Jones and Ms Smith-Jones. That seemed to be a good compromise to me.