One of my favourite posts was the ‘zed versus zee’ pronunciation debate, and not just because it still generates at least one hit a week. I just have a strange affection for the idiosyncracies of language. Like yesterday, I spent half an hour researching whether or not I had to use a serial comma. Apparently, there are feuding factions on this one – and you thought Red Sox v Yankees, or Capulets v Montagues, or Tastes Great v Less Filling were blood feuds!
A serial comma is the comma that may (or may not) come just before a conjunction in a list of items. Which one is right:
That second comma, after fruit, is a serial comma. I don’t tend to use them, and most newspaper style guides – including the Canadian Press and the NYT – agree with me. But Strunk and White and Fowler’s Modern English Style beg to differ.
What’s a girl to do? Grammar matters! If you don’t believe me, read this Globe and Mail story (hat tip to Fryman for the link) about a comma that may just cost Rogers Communication the tidy sum of $2.13M.
I get other cool stuff in my in-box, too. Like AOL sent me no schwag whatsoever with their request for me to advertise their new Study Buddy service for K – 12 school kids. I have long thought AOL was the devil, and haven’t really had the chance to check out this service, but hey, maybe one of you might find it helpful.
And this is cool. There’s a wonderful organization in the States called First Book, which I will happily endorse (also completely without schwag – see how magnanimous I am?), and they are offering a coupon for 10% off your purchase at Borders (which I understand is a lovely book store in the US) for August 26 and 27 only. An additional 10% of your purchase will be donated to First Book.
Now I’ve got to go figure whether I’m a serial commaist or not…
{ 46 comments… read them below or add one }
I, for one, am totally a serial commaist. I am, always, it seems, going back to delete unnecessary commas.
I, for one, am totally a serial commaist. I am, always, it seems, going back to delete unnecessary commas.
Well, it is always nice to resolve ambiguity wherever possible. Or to create some.
I pay no attention to the rules, as you might have figured out by now. I sprinkle commas in to give people a chance to rest and breathe during my run-on sentences. Kind of like speed bumps, but less annoying.
I say use ’em if you got ’em. They’re free, you know.
Well, it is always nice to resolve ambiguity wherever possible. Or to create some.
I pay no attention to the rules, as you might have figured out by now. I sprinkle commas in to give people a chance to rest and breathe during my run-on sentences. Kind of like speed bumps, but less annoying.
I say use ’em if you got ’em. They’re free, you know.
I always thought it was called an Oxford comma. (You have to admit, it sounds spiffier.)
Generally, I don’t use them. In the example you provided, I wouldn’t have. But it depends on what makes a sentence clearer.
I always figured the point of grammar is to help people understand what you’re saying; so I’m not too hidebound about the rules, as long as the end result makes sense.
I always thought it was called an Oxford comma. (You have to admit, it sounds spiffier.)
Generally, I don’t use them. In the example you provided, I wouldn’t have. But it depends on what makes a sentence clearer.
I always figured the point of grammar is to help people understand what you’re saying; so I’m not too hidebound about the rules, as long as the end result makes sense.
If you don’t use a serial comma, the terrorists win.
If you don’t use a serial comma, the terrorists win.
Pick up a copy of EATS, SHOOTS, AND LEAVES. There’s a kid version of it too! You will love it!
Pick up a copy of EATS, SHOOTS, AND LEAVES. There’s a kid version of it too! You will love it!
My name is jo(e) and I am a recovering serial commaist.
My name is jo(e) and I am a recovering serial commaist.
Serial commas? This is a bit over my frenglish head.
I would lost without spell and grammar check. Both of which save me in this high tech world. However, most of the techies I write to have no concept of grammar so even Microsoft’s horrible grammar check is wasted on them.
Jaimie picked up EATS, SHOOTS, AND LEAVES a couple of years ago and it is fantastic!
Serial commas? This is a bit over my frenglish head.
I would lost without spell and grammar check. Both of which save me in this high tech world. However, most of the techies I write to have no concept of grammar so even Microsoft’s horrible grammar check is wasted on them.
Jaimie picked up EATS, SHOOTS, AND LEAVES a couple of years ago and it is fantastic!
I didn’t realize this comma had a name, but I ALWAYS use them. In your example, I thought that the first sentence read a little oddly. I read “fruit and potato chips” all in a rush. But I do remember being told in high school that they were somewhat obsolete and therefore optional.
I didn’t realize this comma had a name, but I ALWAYS use them. In your example, I thought that the first sentence read a little oddly. I read “fruit and potato chips” all in a rush. But I do remember being told in high school that they were somewhat obsolete and therefore optional.
I like serial commas because they help sort out long lists where some things are “compound items” with an “and” within the item and some are separate. Oddly, though, I don’t like serial commas in a list of names. When I sign email from me, My Love, and Snuggly Girl I omit the serial comma. But not in that sentence. See! Weird.
I’ve been reading fancy restaurant menus to plan a dinner for my mom’s birthday and the grammar is terrible! I can’t tell if a certain dish actually contains caviar (ick) or if it is basil tomato “caviar” (yum) because the overall use of punctuation is so inconsistent as to make any individual instance of punctuation (or lack of) completely unreliable as a guide to meaning.
A good grammar rant: what better way to start the weekend?
I like serial commas because they help sort out long lists where some things are “compound items” with an “and” within the item and some are separate. Oddly, though, I don’t like serial commas in a list of names. When I sign email from me, My Love, and Snuggly Girl I omit the serial comma. But not in that sentence. See! Weird.
I’ve been reading fancy restaurant menus to plan a dinner for my mom’s birthday and the grammar is terrible! I can’t tell if a certain dish actually contains caviar (ick) or if it is basil tomato “caviar” (yum) because the overall use of punctuation is so inconsistent as to make any individual instance of punctuation (or lack of) completely unreliable as a guide to meaning.
A good grammar rant: what better way to start the weekend?
Oh, and did I tell you about the time I had an argument with a used car salesman about the meaning of the word “or”? I called the state consumer protection office and confirmed that I was correct. That didn’t save me from the condescending “well, I’ll go along with you, you silly young thing, even though you are wrong” speech.
That Rogers contract example is fabulous. I totally agree with the court; their lawyers messed up in permitting them to sign it.
Oh, and did I tell you about the time I had an argument with a used car salesman about the meaning of the word “or”? I called the state consumer protection office and confirmed that I was correct. That didn’t save me from the condescending “well, I’ll go along with you, you silly young thing, even though you are wrong” speech.
That Rogers contract example is fabulous. I totally agree with the court; their lawyers messed up in permitting them to sign it.
I, am not, a serial, commaist, however, I, am a, too often, user of, the comma. No really, I’m not that bad, I just thought it was funny. I really don’t use the serial comma…..I was bashed in high school for it and learned my lesson.
I, am not, a serial, commaist, however, I, am a, too often, user of, the comma. No really, I’m not that bad, I just thought it was funny. I really don’t use the serial comma…..I was bashed in high school for it and learned my lesson.
I had a very strict English teacher in high school who drilled the concept of the serial comma into our brains. I feel guilty every time I don’t use one.
Because of him, I will also avoid beginning a sentence with the word There, since it doesn’t typically refer to anything and is apparently quite incorrect. (Although I’ve never been able to verify this particular assertion of his).
It’s very strange what stays with you.
I had a very strict English teacher in high school who drilled the concept of the serial comma into our brains. I feel guilty every time I don’t use one.
Because of him, I will also avoid beginning a sentence with the word There, since it doesn’t typically refer to anything and is apparently quite incorrect. (Although I’ve never been able to verify this particular assertion of his).
It’s very strange what stays with you.
There is no reason to avoid starting a sentence this way! Zany’s strict English teacher was fruity, chippy and nuts.
No comma.
There is no reason to avoid starting a sentence this way! Zany’s strict English teacher was fruity, chippy and nuts.
No comma.
In this particular example, I am a serial commaist. I learned to use them in school and I just can’t stop!
My mother-in-law uses commas everywhere. There are so many in each message – maybe more commas than words! You can never make sense of her sentences because there, are, so, many, pauses.
In this particular example, I am a serial commaist. I learned to use them in school and I just can’t stop!
My mother-in-law uses commas everywhere. There are so many in each message – maybe more commas than words! You can never make sense of her sentences because there, are, so, many, pauses.
I am a serialist.
Seriously, let us say you are writing to a fabric store and ask them for a yard each of green, blue and red velvet. Are you asking for 2 yards or 3?
I am a serialist.
Seriously, let us say you are writing to a fabric store and ask them for a yard each of green, blue and red velvet. Are you asking for 2 yards or 3?
After 41 years of non use I have just been converted.
Thank you
After 41 years of non use I have just been converted.
Thank you
Liz’s example is a good one. I, too, use serial commas (although not in legal writing, where no one uses them).
Liz’s example is a good one. I, too, use serial commas (although not in legal writing, where no one uses them).
never even heard of the term serial comma or maybe I did and intentionally obliterated it from my mind due to a rather nasty and terrifying Creative Writing teacher in college who brainwashed me into NEVER using a comma before a conjunction as in that was the Golden Rule (phew, maybe I should have inserted a few commas in there;).
So thank-you dani for enlightening me yet again.
never even heard of the term serial comma or maybe I did and intentionally obliterated it from my mind due to a rather nasty and terrifying Creative Writing teacher in college who brainwashed me into NEVER using a comma before a conjunction as in that was the Golden Rule (phew, maybe I should have inserted a few commas in there;).
So thank-you dani for enlightening me yet again.
I didn’t know how comma happy I was until grad school. My advisor had to give me a little lesson in their appropriate use–it was absolutely mortifying.
I didn’t know how comma happy I was until grad school. My advisor had to give me a little lesson in their appropriate use–it was absolutely mortifying.
I put together Tone Magazine, which you may have seen. The people who proofread the articles often put commas after an “and”, but not in the case of a a simple list as in your example, but if the “and” is followed by a phrase, it makes the sentence clearer.
I put together Tone Magazine, which you may have seen. The people who proofread the articles often put commas after an “and”, but not in the case of a a simple list as in your example, but if the “and” is followed by a phrase, it makes the sentence clearer.
I am a huge fan and supporter of the serial comma. Commas, commas, and more commas!!!!!!
I am neither a fan nor supporter of the run on sentence, though, which is a common problem for the comma happy.
I am a huge fan and supporter of the serial comma. Commas, commas, and more commas!!!!!!
I am neither a fan nor supporter of the run on sentence, though, which is a common problem for the comma happy.
I think the most important thing is consistency: either you are a serial columnist in any given piece or you are not.
My favorite grammar rant is the incorrect use of the word “it’s” with the apostrophe. If “it” doesn’t own anything, “it” doesn’t need an apostrophe, people!
I think the most important thing is consistency: either you are a serial columnist in any given piece or you are not.
My favorite grammar rant is the incorrect use of the word “it’s” with the apostrophe. If “it” doesn’t own anything, “it” doesn’t need an apostrophe, people!
Drives me crazy, too! But you stop short of the actual rule—“It’s” is short for “it is” … and nothing else! What get’s my goat even worse, though, are sign’s that say things like Nacho’s … or are loaded with other plurals that are spelled like possessive’s 😉
Drives me crazy, too! But you stop short of the actual rule—“It’s” is short for “it is” … and nothing else! What get’s my goat even worse, though, are sign’s that say things like Nacho’s … or are loaded with other plurals that are spelled like possessive’s 😉
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